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Post by rich Klein on Apr 3, 2015 19:04:34 GMT -6
Exchanging some thoughts with a missionary about John 3:5. What do you'all think is the "water" and the "spirit/Spirit?"
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Post by CowboysDad on Apr 4, 2015 10:14:57 GMT -6
I've always thought that Ezekiel 36:25-27 helps us with John 3:5. The water (highlighted by John's baptism, cf. 1:26) pictures the cleansing that accompanies a change of heart (1:12; 3:16), but of course any power of transformation comes only through the Holy Spirit (3:6, 8).
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Post by brianwagner on Apr 4, 2015 12:05:17 GMT -6
When teaching hermeneutics, I use this verse as a great example of how to find meaning from the inside out (local context to the greater context) and also as an example of how an unclear verse has been used dogmatically to support a harmful teaching (sacramental infant baptism). Since the phrase "born of water" is not used elsewhere by Jesus, or indeed anywhere else in the Scripture, it is not clear as to its meaning and cannot be made clear for any dogmatic purpose, though each individual is free to come to a personal clarity on its meaning.
The hermeneutics of coming to personal clarity should include a progression from local context, to parallel passages by the same speaker (in this case Christ) to parallel passages by the same author (in this case John). Next, but with less certainty, parallel passages from the rest of the NT, then the OT, and finally from non-biblical contemporary texts that use similar words and phrases can be consulted. Biblical alternatives from clear passages are thus rated as to certainty for this unclear passage, but never should be used to state that the original passage "must" mean what is discovered in these other passages.
So in order of certainty - "born of water" may mean, based on the local context: physical birth or spiritual birth (water of womb or και means "even); based on the parallel speaker or author context: spiritual or physical birth (John 7:38-39, 1John 5:6); based on larger NT or OT context: spiritual birth, John's Baptism (water of the word, repentance, 1Peter 1:23, Eph 5:26, Matt 3:11, Ezek 36:25-27). But "born of water" cannot mean Christian baptism, since Christian water baptism had not be instituted until the Great Commission was given, after Christ's death and resurrection. Nor can it mean infant baptism, since the NT teaching on baptism is clear concerning it as a post faith commitment experience. Even John's baptism was not offered to children.
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Post by rich Klein on Apr 22, 2015 14:18:55 GMT -6
When I teach John 3:5 I present the nine "popular" interpretations as to what the "water" might represent or actually and literally be.
One of the views presented is that the "water" represents Nicodemus' purification by water in the "mikveh" ritual of all good Jewish males. See Exodus 29:4. And, see Essene traditional practice.
Of course, another real possiblility is that Jesus was saying: "Yep. You have submitted to the baptism of John but you must be "born of the Spirit" or "no kingdom of God for you."
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