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Post by CowboysDad on Jun 27, 2015 16:02:43 GMT -6
How do you understand the expression, "assembly of the LORD" in Deut. 23:3? Is this an exclusion from temple worship, from the nation of Israel or something else? If an exclusion from the nation of Israel, then how do you explain Ruth's inclusion? - Daniel
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Post by brianwagner on Jun 30, 2015 12:03:34 GMT -6
I appreciate Gill for finding the Jewish perspective on verses, and though it may not be what I ultimately choose to believe, I usually find it helpful. He says of this verse -
--An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord,… Or marry an Israelitish woman, as Jarchi, and so the Targum of Jonathan,"the male Ammonites and Moabites are not fit to take a wife of the congregation of the Lord;''for the Jews restrain this to men, because it is, as Aben Ezra observes, an Ammonite, not an Ammonitess, a Moabite, not a Moabitess; they allow that females of those nations might be married to Israelites, that is, provided they were proselytesses, as Ruth was(1):
--even to their tenth generation, shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever; that is, not only to the tenth generation, but for ever; and this law was understood as in force in Nehemiah's time, which was more than ten generations from the making of it; though now, as these nations are no more a distinct people, they suppose it is no longer binding(2).
1. Misn. Yebamot, c. 8. sect. 3. 2. Misn. Yadaim, c. 4. sect. 4.
Of the phrase - "congregation of the LORD" Gill has introduced an interesting twist in his discussion of that same phrase found in verse 1. He says -
--shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; which is to be understood not of the sanctuary of the Lord, or of being refused admittance into the church of God, and to join in religious rites, and partake of sacred ordinances, which all Israelites, and strangers that were proselytes, had a right unto; such might bring their offerings, keep the passover, etc. Ex 12:48 nor of the commonwealth of Israel, as if unfit to be members of civil society; it cannot be thought that such defects should abridge them of their civil rights and privileges: but by the congregation is to be understood the elders, judges, and representatives of the people, that met together in some one place to execute judgment; see Nu 35:12, into which such persons were not to be admitted; either because disgraceful and dishonourable, or because of the influence such defects have on their minds, they thereby becoming effeminate, irresolute, and wanting courage, as well as in opposition to the customs and usages of the Heathens, with whom it was common to admit such persons to civil offices; hence the word eunuch is sometimes used for an officer, Ge 37:36 and elsewhere; the Jews(2) restrain this law to marriage, but unnecessarily.
2. Targum Jon. in loc. Misn. Yebamot, c. 8. sect. 2, 4, 5, 6. Maimon. Moreh Nevochim, par. 3. c. 49.
So - Moabite men being forbidden from ever being a part of leadership in Israel, sounds good to me!
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Post by CowboysDad on Jul 1, 2015 22:06:26 GMT -6
Never had even heard before the argument that it is an assembly of judicial or religious leaders. This has merit for several reasons: 1) There does seem to be a distinction at times between the congregation in general and the assembly in particular (Lev. 4:13; Num. 16:3; and 1 Chron. 28:8); 2) the word "enter" can also be translated "attain to," suggesting elevation to an office; 3) it is hard for me to see how the emasculated or illegitimate child (Deut. 23:1-2) would be excluded from the nation as a whole; usually we see "cut off" or some such expression; and 4) although exclusion from temple worship has some merit, given that assembly is often used in a religious context and that there does seem to be a distinction at times between congregation and assembly, yet I don't see any Scriptures that bump me in that direction.
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