reg
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Posts: 1
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Post by reg on Apr 7, 2020 0:09:41 GMT -6
In recent times there’s been talk of what Jesus had to empty Himself to become human. I want to explore Jesus’ humanity from the opposite side starting with the assumption that He at all times remained fully God (Col 1 and 2)
the obvious attribute Jesus had to add was a body
The second we are informed of was the attribute displayed in Genesis 3 .... humans has the ability to rebel against God. That’s what Jesus had to learn obedience .... something altogether new!
Am I talking rubbish? What other ‘attributes’ did Jesus have to take on?
Reg
Retired actuary
Diabetic for half century
Member of Pinelands Baptist Church Cape Town since 1964
Been following Jesus for over 7 decades
please be patient with me, God isn’t finished with me yet!
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Post by brianwagner on Apr 7, 2020 9:12:07 GMT -6
Welcome Reg! I hope all is well there with you and your loved ones in SA. The Son of God certainly did remain in possession, or perhaps better - ownership - of all His divine attributes. And thus with the "addition" of a body or literally "became flesh" was still God. ;-) But in my view, He did not use His divine attributes of power and omniscience, but relied fully on the Holy Spirit to use His/the Spirit's attributes of power and omniscience through Him/Jesus.
Taking on flesh did give Jesus a taste of what it means to be tempted to sin, perhaps even being drawn away and enticed, but never able, imo, to have desire conceive in His will to bring forth sin. In my view His will from the divine influence of His divine/human spirit always trumped the human influence from His divine/human spirit. But ultimately we will have to wait on answers to questions like these and not be too dogmatic.
We can and should be dogmatic that Jesus, the Son of God, never sinned, and He became the perfect ransom of the sins of the whole world! Praise His Name!
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Post by CowboysDad on Apr 7, 2020 21:56:47 GMT -6
Hi Reg, for me the answer to your question rests in part on the phrase in v. 7, "coming in the likeness of men." Paul also uses a very similar phrase in Romans 8:3, "in the likeness of sinful flesh." Same word. The word inherently suggests similarity, but it does not necessitate full equality (in every point exactly). Clearly, he came as a man, but at the same time he is different from all men in that he never sinned in the flesh (Heb. 4:15). Yes, he has a body (Heb. 10:10). Yes, he must have felt the weightiness of facing and experiencing suffering in his human body (Luke 22:44; Heb. 5:8), even learning in some way the human struggle with submission, but he never rebelled nor could rebel in my view.
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adamkeim
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Former pastor and seminary instructor. Adjusting to Texas life. Member of Elk Ridge Baptist Church.
Posts: 3
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Post by adamkeim on Apr 11, 2020 14:43:12 GMT -6
This is a great topic!
The humanness of Jesus is, in my opinion, something that is not often enough appreciated. That is, we focus so much on his divinity (amen!) that we can fall into the trap of overlooking his humanity. In fact, I think that an appropriate apprehension of his humanity can explain a lot of potentially confusing verses in the Gospels.
We instinctively see his divinity first because that is what we keep in mind when we read the Gospels. We already know that Jesus is God. I imagine that in Jesus' day, it was easier for people to see his humanity first because that is what they saw with their own eyes. To them, it was more difficult to conceive of his divinity. Jesus' divine nature is what tripped up his doubters.
What did he empty himself of? I think that Philippians 2 paints a picture of "subtraction by addition." Some quick observations:
v. 5: "Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus..."
Wonderful preaching emphasis! Paul's whole point in launching into his profound Christology is to encourage the Philippians in their humility toward one another! (vv. 1-4).
v. 6: "...who, though he was in the form of God..."
The term morphe speaks of an essence/nature. I argue that this divine nature is not what Jesus "emptied" himself of.
v. 6: "Did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped..."
Jesus did not consider his equality with the Father (in my view, glory) as something to be held on to at all costs. He was willing to "let something go." I take the "forcibly retained" gloss of harpogmos.
v. 7: "...but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant..."
Taking on the form a servant (incarnation/humanity) is how he "emptied" himself. The thing that he emptied himself of contrasts with a servant's form.
v. 8: "And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."
Humility is a strong clue as to what the thing is that he "emptied" himself of.
With these considerations, I observe his earthly ministry as one that forsook the rightful glory due his divine nature as he served others. People (by and large) did not recognize his divinity, nor did they glorify him for it. Had they, they never would have crucified him - which would be bad news for us. Consequently, Jesus had to be disrespected and unrecognized by Israel at large in order to go to the cross.
I agree that Jesus retained all of his divine attributes, and he humbly submitted to operate according to the power of the Holy Spirit. He did not use his divine abilities to benefit himself, and always did what he was sent by the Father to do. In John 17:4-5, Jesus, looking forward to when his mission would be finished, prays to be glorified with the glory that he had with the Father before the world existed.
In short, I think that what Jesus "emptied" himself of was the expression of his divine glory.
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